Eden: Abe and Liza, thank you so much for being willing to have a conversation with me today and tell me about Jesus’s work in your life and share your story with people that are on our podcast. I’m excited for them to get to hear about your lives. But for some context, Abe and Liza work together in a dental office. Abe is a dentist, and Liza is working as his right hand and is a blessing to all that walk in their office. And they also write hymns together. So, we’ll hear a little bit more about their life and ministry.
We came to know one another through church many years ago, and have just continued to know one another through their wonderful dental ministry. So, I would love to hear a little bit from you guys about your life and a couple of things that bring you joy. So, for both of you, are there a few things that especially bring you joy?
Liza: Sometimes, it’s the simple things, like I enjoy going on morning walks with Abe in Forest Preserves, and I love time with our three kids: Zach, Zoe, and Faith and treasure it more and more, because they’re getting older, and it’s harder to have everybody together. Also, one of my favorite times of day is just when I can have a cup of chai, sit down, and read God’s Word and spend time talking to him.
Abe: Yeah, I would add that too: definitely family, time in nature I find very healing. I love writing, you know, music and especially songwriting. I’ve always found it to be a really helpful way to engage with the Word of God—combining both your heart and your mind. I like to think of myself as [a] lifelong learner. I was actually a history major, so that’s always been important to me. And macroeconomics and politics and all that kind of stuff. I love science and geography.
Eden: I love, Liza, that you mentioned that your favorite cup of something in the morning is chai. I haven’t heard someone say that yet. We’ve heard coffee and tea. And Abe, yeah, it’s just so cool to see how God’s word just goes forth into the world and goes into places we’d never imagine it and has an impact everywhere.
So, I would love to hear in your own lives, are there any Scriptures that are especially precious to you and why?
Liza: I just love the Book of Psalms. We get to hear from the greatest songwriter ever [in] his 150 songs. And we get to see God in so many ways through the Psalms. Like in Psalm 2, you’ll see him as the king that’s reigning in the heavens and laughing (Psalm 2:4), not worried about what’s going on here on earth, but he’s in control. And then [in] Psalm 22, we can see Jesus, the suffering Savior, on the cross. And then in Psalm 23, just the shepherd who walks with us and never leaves us (Psalm 23:1, 4). So, I just love the honesty of the Psalms. You can come to God with your fears and when you’re having trouble. I’ve just felt such a comfort using the songs to pray and give me words to say when I don’t have the words. And it also teaches you how to have faith, even when things are hard, to still turn our eyes up and worship God.
Eden: Yes, those are such a precious part of Scripture and one that’s huge; you could spend a whole week on a verse from the Psalms. And then you think [that] you’ve got a whole 150 songs to pick from and so many beautiful things within them. So that’s a great place to camp out and meditate, for sure. Yeah. And what about you, Abe?
Abe: Well, I definitely would affirm the Psalms. People call it a Bible within a Bible, you know? Psalm 150 is almost like the equivalent of Revelation, in a sense.
But I would probably say the Gospel of John would be my favorite. [As] you study it, there’s all these sevens everywhere. You’re reminded of so many beautiful things, like, “if you love me, keep my commands” (John 14:15). And then at the very end: “Do you love me? Feed my sheep” (John 21:17). So these are two things that Jesus tells us.
I was taken aback when someone had mentioned that the word “repent” is not in the in the Gospel of John. That shocked me. You know—the word metanoia. Not that repentance is not important—of course it is—but it reminds me, poetically, of the thief on the cross (Luke 23:32-43). He didn’t get baptized; he didn’t take communion; he didn’t tithe; he didn’t give up anything, really; he really didn’t say a sinner’s prayer. If you think of this whole decision theology or whatever [you want to call it], he simply looked to Jesus, [and said] when you come into your kingdom, just remember me (Luke 23:42). And that was enough—that the one who believes on the Son and beholds him will have eternal life (John 3:14-15). And the purpose statement of John? It’s an amazing book! It just tells you at the end or near the end: What was [it] all about? “These things were written that you might believe” (John 20:31). Yeah. So, that’s most definitely my favorite book.
Eden: Yes, yes. And it’s amazing that God has given us such a simple way to come to salvation. It’s just that we would believe. And yet we overcomplicate that in so many ways. I just read this morning in, I think it was 2 Thessalonians 1, [that] Paul is celebrating the Thessalonian’s faith. And he talks about how [he’s] so encouraged to see [their] faith growing (2 Thessalonians 1:3).
And I think we measure our success as believers by how righteous we are or [by] our good deeds. And it’s like what God wants from us is faith, which is just trusting him more and more. I love how the Gospel of John makes that very clear to us also.
Well, I would love to hear about your story of how God brought you together. I think it’s so beautiful and could be an encouragement to other people, but I’d also love to hear how Jesus brought you to himself. So, whichever comes first, or if they coincide, I would just love to hear about that if you’re willing to share.
Liza: Well, I guess I’ll start from before. When I was very young, I grew up in a Christian family, so I heard my parents teaching me God’s Word ever since I can remember. And one time, I remember being about six years old and sitting on my bed and my dad telling me about Jesus on the cross, dying for our sins. And somehow, even as a little girl, I teared up and I believed and also probably was just kind of in awe of what he did for us.
And later, as I grew up, I started to complicate things, like you were saying, and tried to earn my salvation, tried to earn God’s favor by being a good girl and trying to keep the law and thinking I could do it, not realizing that God demands perfection. Like, good enough is not good enough. Like, even compared to other humans, that’s not how we are to compare our goodness. But I kept trying and realized that I couldn’t do it and kept failing. And that led me to despair and realizing that I do need somebody outside of myself to save me. I can’t do it.
So, I’m so grateful for Jesus, the one who took our sins, who became sin for us, so that we might become the righteousness of God in him (2 Corinthians 5:21). So now the Father looks on us with love—as much as he loves his Son—which is hard to believe, because we’re in Christ. So, it’s amazing that we can have a relationship with God now. I have a hope, and life is going to get even better beyond the grave. So, there’s just so much to be grateful for. I just needed that simple faith when I was six, the faith like a child (Matthew 18:3); just believe. And he didn’t require anything else. Just look to the Son and live (John 6:40).
Eden: That’s so beautiful.
Abe: Yeah. For me, in one way, I can’t remember a time when I wasn’t a part of the Christian faith. I do have a distinct memory of my mom teaching me John 3:16 in the King James Version, so believeth on him and all those things. And so I think that it was always special to me, and, much like Liza, as I got older, you know, you get exposed to hypocrisy, [and] you become a little too smart for your own good. And I had a real, complete loss of faith that happened in probably my very late teens all the way into my mid-twenties.
It was strange. I was in these honors classes and in the public school, and every single one of my teachers were agnostic or atheist. And so, not that anyone said anything, but you imbibe it almost without thinking, like, “Oh, if you’re intelligent, you won’t believe in God. And you certainly wouldn’t believe in Christianity.” And so I went down that path for a while, and it’s a long story—it’s actually too long of a story—but the Lord really, in his time, I became convinced that there had to be more to this life than just material reality.
And I probably could have gotten into the occult. I would not be surprised. I was almost there. I don’t know how that didn’t actually happen. And I think that there were two things [that helped protect me]. There was a—he’s a Catholic writer—but he wrote a book called Handbook of Christian Apologetics, Peter Kreeft, and he had a section on the resurrection. And I’d never seen the resurrection defended rationally before. It just [previously] seemed like a wild claim that could not be substantiated. And I think when I studied it, and then I saw all the potential alternatives, I found myself in a place where I [realized] I [would] need just as much faith to not believe in this than to believe in it. We all know this, that the disciples did not get wealth; they didn’t get power; they didn’t get fame; they didn’t get acclamation. I mean, they are honored now, but not when they were being boiled in oil or being crucified upside down, like Peter or whatever.
And so, when you think about that, if someone says, “Well, I don’t think it happened.” Well, you have some explanation to do, and there’s a whole set of thinking [required to believe that]. So that was very powerful for me. So for me, I think that the epic part of my story was the reversion: coming back to faith. And I think that that was very special.
And there were people, like for me personally, [the Lord used], like the honesty in Rich Mullins writing: I got exposed to that somehow. I think that before I really came back to faith, I think I came to see the Christian faith as beautiful, and I needed to know that. And I remember even thinking at a point in my life like, “Well, I can see where the beauty is. I wish this was true, but too bad it’s not,” you know? And that’s where I was. And then, like I said, a lot of the apologetics was helpful in kind of getting me over the edge. So, yeah, there’s a lot more to say, but that’s the concept.
Eden: Yeah! Well, thank you for sharing. And I love how both of you talk about faith. And in Liza’s experience, faith is simple trust in Jesus. But I think, Abe, your story reminds us that faith in Jesus is rational. It’s not something that is kind of absurd or ridiculous: The Christian faith not only satisfies our hearts, but it satisfies our minds too—that our biblical faith is what’s true, and it matches up with history and with reality. And it’s just really neat that our simple faith in Jesus is still simple faith in a historical event and a historical person and God really coming to earth as a man and really rising from the dead. It’s not just wishful thinking that satisfies this ache in our hearts. It’s truth; it’s reality, and I love that both of your stories have both sides of that to it.
Abe: You know, I was just listening to two young men, young to me, in their late twenties. And they were just mentioning they had both come back to the Christian faith. And he was commenting about his older brother; I guess he had a very intellectual older brother, who was very smart or whatever. And that brother was trying to share some theology textbooks and apologetics with him. He says, “Well, it all just goes over my head. I don’t really get it. I feel like I need more stories to really connect with me.” And when I was hearing that, I was kind of touched in the sense of, “This young man did not have the delusion that the Christian faith was not an intellectually rigorous faith.” Do you know what I mean? And so, he came to believe it’s true. But I think that he had that respect [for the truth]. And anyone who knows, some of the smartest people who’ve ever lived have been believers, and certainly the other way around, too. It’s not an IQ question.
Eden: Yes, yes. Totally.
I would love to hear about you guys and how God brought you together. So, would you be willing to just share about how the Holy Spirit worked to bring you guys to become married?
Abe: I asked her to marry me in three days, so there was no thinking involved, you know. When you know, you know. So, she may have more to say.
Eden: Wow!
Liza: So, yeah, after three days, and then six months later, we were married. And now it’s twenty-five years later and three kids later, and we had no idea that our gifts would be matched for songwriting. Like that was God’s doing. Like, we didn’t think about the compatibility of that. So, we were kind of surprised by that, too.
Eden: Wow. Um, so did you meet and then three days later, you were engaged?
Liza: Yes. And there were a few random meetings. Like, I’m from Canada—from Calgary—and he’s from Chicago.
Abe: Our families had remote connections with each other.
Liza: So when he was six, his family came up to Calgary to celebrate, and they celebrated his birthday up there. So, I was one, and I attended his birthday.
Eden: Wow!
Liza: And then when I was eighteen, I met him another time and thought, “Wow, this is the type of guy I’d like to marry. But I don’t think it’ll work, because he lives in Chicago, and he’s five years older than me, so I don’t think it’ll happen.” But then a few years later, God brought it to be.
Eden: Wow! So, you obviously knew of each other and had people to say, “Yes, that’s a godly person, the right kind of person.” But then when you met, you were just like, “We know.”
Liza: Yes.
Abe: Well, I knew. I’m not sure about you. That took a little persuading, you know.
Liza: Once we talked, I knew, but I didn’t call him for a few weeks, so that was a time I wanted to pray.
Abe: I still haven’t gotten over it, you know?
Eden: Yes. The insecurity of it all.
Liza: And then my dad actually got mad at me, because I wasn’t calling Abe. My dad actually thought we’d be a good pair, and. And then he said, “This person thinks you guys will be a good match. This person knows you guys will be a good match, but you don’t see it.” So, it was kind of funny.
Eden: Oh, wow. Well, that is such a fun story.
Okay, and so, Liza, you just mentioned that you felt like God really paired your gifts together, which tracks with what God is like—all wise and sovereign over our lives. But I would love to just hear about your music ministry. So, how did that come about? What inspired you guys to start writing hymns? And what does that look like for you?
Liza: Yeah. When Abe was twenty-six, somehow, God had already given him this vision or understanding of the importance of singing and worship—that it’s tied closely to God’s Word. So, he had already been writing before we met, and I had been exposed to a lot of hymns. My mom would always be singing hymns, and I just loved them. And so, just being exposed to them is like a whole theological and musical education. And so we just ended up writing together. But we want words that are solid, words that are eternal, that we can trust. We could always think of our own ideas, but they’re never going to hold the way God’s Word stands. So, they’re also memorizable; songs are just so easy to memorize. So what better words to meditate on and to memorize than God’s Word?
Eden: And so how do you go about writing songs? Is it something that you’re just reading your Bible and reflecting on it, and you put it into verse, or how does that come about, if the lyrics are so closely tied to Scripture?
Liza: Yeah, many times it is with our Bibles open. We’ll sit at the piano, or one of us will be inspired by a little section of Scripture or an idea. And then usually Abe will work on melodies more, I’d say. But we both do the lyrics together. And we’ve also written hymns as well, but I’ve been focusing especially on trying to get even the exact words of Scripture to music as well. But it’s kind of tricky, because not all Scripture just lends itself to a song. It has to be artistic as well.
Eden: Yes. So, if someone wanted to find your music and listen to it, how would they go about doing that?
Liza: You can go to songsfromscripture.com. Or we have a YouTube channel as well: Abe and Liza Philip. Or Songs from Scripture. And then any other typical social media, it should be there as well.
Eden: Okay. Awesome. And would you tell us about a song that you wrote recently and what it’s about, just to give someone a flavor of what you’ve been writing recently?
Abe: You know, what comes to mind for me immediately is we just put out a song called “My Savior Lives.” Now that Easter is over, it was an unusual experience writing the song, because I was hoping to write this really rousing anthem, an Easter anthem, and out came like a very heartfelt, melancholy, filled-with-longing song. It’s come to mean a lot to me. It’s unusual to connect the resurrection with dealing with grief and sadness and things like that. And I think that for some reason, it was extra meaningful to me, because sometimes I think that a lot of Christians can put on a fake joy and a fake “everything’s fine,” or “I know I ought to be handling this better, so therefore, I’m going to just say the words, ‘it is well with my soul,’ even though I don’t feel it right now.” You know what I mean?
Eden: Yeah. Yes!
Abe: So, I think that this whole ministry for me has been a loving protest against trends that I’ve been sad about in the church, you know. Like I was saying earlier, when God was waking my heart up again, music I was exposed to—it seemed helpful at the time. But I realized it was very light. There was a lot missing, you know, and I still feel like some of the biggest names out there in the Christian music world, that seems to be what sells or what’s popular. I remember thinking before I met Liza, “I hope it never happens, but if I had to bury my wife, I cannot imagine how any of these songs would be helpful at all,” you know?
Eden: Yeah.
Abe: And I remember just having to think about it, you know, like, “Well, where can I go? Is there a solid ground that I can put my foot on that I can take to the bank?” And I realized, of course, it’s the Scriptures. They’ve been with us for 3000 years. They’re not going to change. Jesus promised, you know, heaven and earth itself can pass away, but they’re not passing away (Matthew 24:35). And I think that’s what started this.
There’s a section for songs that are not directly from Scripture. We actually have an entire section called “The Word in the Words” where we break apart every line and we just show exactly where in the Scriptures it can be found. And that’s been a joy to hear people using that either for meditation or in the church services or whatever. I’m hoping that people more talented than us will take up this torch and start writing much closer to Scripture, you know? Very often, we want to focus on our particular theology: “I’m a Calvinist,” “I’m an Orthodox,” or “I’m a Methodist.” “And I’m going to really emphasize that uniqueness that I have as the most important thing.” It’s like, let the Word just speak. And I feel like that’s something I’d love to see.
I’m sure you know there are churches that use something called exclusive psalmody, where they only sing psalms. And that’s beautiful. But I would argue for inclusive psalmody, like where we just sing Scripture. There are beautiful things in Deuteronomy and the Gospels and the epistles, and we certainly have that represented in high art: Handel, Mendelssohn. But I think that on an average Sunday, it would be nice if people could literally recite Scripture, know that it’s true. It’s not the opinion of a writer. And so, that’s a dream of mine—to see that little flame become a forest fire.
Eden: Yeah, and one of the Scripture verses that we use as a tagline, almost—it’s on everything that we put out—is, “For the Word of God is alive and powerful” (Hebrews 4:12 NIV) or living and active in the ESV. And we also have the promise in Scripture that the Holy Spirit will apply the words of Scripture to people’s hearts (John 14:26). And so, as you were saying, if someone’s really deeply grieving, I could say a lot of things to them, but I don’t know that any of those things have power. But I know that if I can speak God’s Word, then his Spirit can take that and sink it into their heart in the way that they need.
And I love Isaiah 55, where it talks about how rain comes down from heaven and waters the earth, and we don’t really know, we can’t trace each raindrop and find out how exactly it made this or that flower grow (Isaiah 55:10-11). But we know that when it rains, things happen and that growth happens. And so, we know that if it’s the Word of God that we’re sowing, like rain, it will bring forth growth. And that’s such a precious promise that we have from Scripture, and one that it seems your whole ministry is built upon—faith in that truth. So, that’s really beautiful.
Abe: Yeah, I love what you said about the word being alive. I’ve been really taken by these billionaire CEOs of technological companies in [the] Silicon Valley and elsewhere, going on trips to South America or Central America, taking ayahuasca, meeting with spirit guides, and having this profound experience. And in my view, obviously, being a Christian, it’s like a false conversion, because they end up feeling a dissolution of the self, and they feel like, “Oh, I’m connected to all of life and everything’s about love,” and there’s a truth to that. But when it’s divorced from Jesus, it’s a problem, you know?
But I think what’s interesting is that these people are correct in the sense of like, “There’s got to be something more than the material world,” and they’re hunting for that. And I think that they’re experiencing, in my view, a broken conversion. And what we’re needing is something that is alive and powerful. We already have this. People just don’t believe it’s there. But we have a transcendent, powerful, immortal, invincible, indestructible force that we’re dealing with when we’re dealing with the words of God, because they come from God, and he connects himself to that. So, I do think that that explains the rise of the occult and the occultic practices, because people are having real experiences, and they’re real. I do believe they’re real. But I think, obviously, coming from India—my parents at least—there’s a lot of very real spirituality that is out there. And I think that it’s hard to be content with what God’s given us. We want more.
Eden: Yes. totally.
Abe: Even within the Christian world. Right?
Eden: Yes. My mom—and I’ll qualify this statement—but she always says, “The Bible is magical.” What she means by that is not that it’s a book of incantations, but God is supernatural. And the story that he tells in the Bible has supernatural qualities to it, like God is the Lord of heaven and earth (Acts 17:24). And when we open the Bible, God does speak to us. And it’s not because the Bible itself is a magical book with stardust coming out of it, but it’s because there’s a person behind the Bible that’s still speaking today, that rose from the dead and is speaking to us still. And so whenever I’m in awe over God working through his words, I think of that. “The Bible is magical.” It really is.
I know that you guys not only write hymns, but you have a dental office. So, a lot of people that interact with our website and our target audience for our website, is actually those that didn’t grow up in church or in a Christian home. And so, we’re trying to help them connect the dots of how relationship with Jesus impacts all of life. So, I would love to hear from both of you, but especially you, Abe, as you are the dentist, how your relationship with Jesus informs your dental work.
Abe: Okay. It just unfortunately is a profession that has not a lot of Christians that are committed. I’m sure there are a decent percentage. Unfortunately, that’s been [my] experience, so it’s been a little bit of a lonelier path in that sense. But when we started the practice, I remember thinking just three words came to mind: kindness, gentleness, excellence. And I feel like that’s been a guiding principle. This applies to everyone’s work, but I’ve always tried to be thinking of myself as being the hands and feet of Jesus (Colossians 3:17), and like tangibly making a difference. And sometimes I just will remind myself, “Well, how would I do this procedure if this was Jesus I was working on?” And I tried to [do it as unto him]. And no one does it perfectly, of course, but that is something that has meant a lot—to do something with love and with excellence. So that’s been very, very important.
So many of the jobs we have, we’re not going to have in heaven. You’re not going to have policemen and lawyers and pastors and dentists and doctors and all these things. Maybe it’ll probably be just the artistic fields, you know, maybe researching and artistry and whatnot. Who knows what we’ll be doing. It seems like there’s ruling, so who knows what that means. But I think that [our current jobs are] literally dealing with decay and things breaking down. And that’s so much of all of our jobs. We’re attempting to hold back or reverse the fall (Genesis 1-3) in a small way.
What would children be like if they didn’t have parents, or they were raised fending for themselves in the forest? They’d be a lot different. And so it is the cultivation from wilderness to garden. That really makes the difference. So, I think that the main thing is love and integrity and care. Hopefully that makes sense.
Eden: Yes, and I can vouch for the fact that that is exactly what you demonstrate. And I’ve been the recipient of that on so many occasions. As you talk about that, it’s just beautiful how when God brings us into his kingdom, he doesn’t just save us from our sins, but he transforms us and makes us people that are like him (2 Corinthians 3:18). And whatever field we’re in, we have the opportunity to display God’s character and the character of Jesus to those around us, and that pushes back the darkness in our world. And God has chosen to make his glory and his goodness known through his people (Ephesians 3:10-11), who he changes to act like him in ways that make people go, “Huh? That’s weird. How are they like that?” Yeah. So it’s beautiful that in the exact line of work that God has called you to that you’re living that out.
Well, I usually like to end asking for book recommendations. So, we’re trying to help people build a bookshelf of things that might help them know Jesus better, learn about God’s work in the world, and help them understand Scripture better. So, if you were to recommend one or two books to someone who’s newer to the faith, books that have been transformational in your own walk with Jesus, what would some of those be?
Abe: I briefly mentioned it. I think that if you’re a little bit more analytical in your thinking, Handbook of Christian Apologetics by Peter Kreeft [is great]. Like you said, he’s a Roman Catholic, so he has a handbook of Catholic apologetics, too. But I think that on the very basics, that is extremely helpful. That was where the discussion of the resurrection just changed my life. And I’d probably say this one probably would be recommended by everybody—C.S. Lewis’s Mere Christianity. That was also very helpful. I think it’s just nice to hear an Oxford professor talk about what he was thinking. It’s very existential, because if I’m not mistaken, I think that these were BBC hosted lectures for young men going off to war. So, this is not simply ivory-tower thinking alone; there are reasons to believe this. And Mere Christianity is not going to lead you to a particular denomination. He calls it “the hallway of Christianity.” You eventually have to pick a room, you know, but I think it’s really, really important. The basics, like is Jesus God?; does it make sense that there could be miracles?; how do I know that there is a God to begin with?; and how do I account for morality? It has its flaws, the book, but I would I still recommend it.
Eden: Yes, I would second that. I’ve given that book to so many friends and read it multiple times. It’s wonderful.
Liza: For me, one resource that I recommend is Biblehub.com, because it just has so many translations of Scripture as well as so many commentaries. And you can see the words in Greek, and you can dig into a passage and really get to know what it means, all in one place. So I really, really love that resource.
And then, I’ve really been affected by reading Randy Alcorn’s books. So, I have a book about heaven that’s just amazing (Heaven: A Comprehensive Guide to Everything the Bible Says About Our Eternal Home). And he was talking about how most theology textbooks hardly talk about heaven. And then he made the example, like if there were people that were going to be going to Mars and then they prepare and everything, and on their way they’re like, “Oh, so what’s Mars like?” [that would be odd]. It’s good to know where we’re going and think about the details, because it’ll affect how we live now.
Abe: He has another book called The Treasure Principle, which is just an encouragement to be a giving person. He has this analogy [that] our entire life, whatever we get—fifty, sixty, 100 years, 120 at the most, usually—it’s a dot, and eternity is a line that never ends. And he made this analogy of like, if you had a temporary work assignment where you were going to be put up in a hotel in Paris, France, but you live, let’s say, in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, in your hotel room, are you going to redo the flooring, get the finest art, install a new kitchen, all these things? You wouldn’t really. It just seems a little silly, because you know you’re going to be gone soon enough. And so, it would make sense to send things back home, send things to where you’re going, if you’re going to invest anywhere. So, I have found that to be a very helpful analogy for life. I tell my kids this all the time.
One of the secrets in living it is regret prevention. Just picture yourself eighty-five years old. Are you going to be happy that you made a lot of money and you’re disassociated from your kids and your wife or something? What are you going to regret? And I think by taking action now, we can live in a way that makes sense, because we’re all going to breathe our last one day and stand before the Lord. Not that we earn anything; it’s not about merit. I’m not saying that. But we love him, and because we love him, we want to obey him, and we want to feed his sheep. And so, that can be songwriting. That can be sharing the gospel with people. It can be doing your work well in whatever you’ve been doing. I really appreciated that principle from Randy Alcorn. So that’s been helpful for me.
Eden: Wow, well, that gives me food for thought today. I feel like that’s so many things to be thinking about and reflect on as I live the rest of today. So thank you for that.
Abe: Absolutely.
Eden: Well, it’s been such a joy to hear some of your story and some of God’s work in your life. And it’s just been a real blessing to me to get to hear your reflections on God’s Word and on life and on Jesus. And it’s been edifying to me, so I know it will be edifying to others. So, thank you.
Thank you so much for listening to our podcast today. If you enjoyed our conversation, I would encourage you to like or subscribe to our podcast, so that you can hear the next conversation. And if something that you heard today spoke to your heart or got you thinking, I would encourage you to not let the day go by without talking to God about what’s on your mind. We believe that he loves you and that he’s pursuing you today out of that love.