Eden: Abby, thank you so much for being willing to interview today. For those who are watching, Abby and I met on an airplane, by God’s providence. And it’s so funny because I was traveling to (Washington) D.C. to go to a banquet, and on the way there I sat next to this sweet lady who asked me, I think, about my Bible reading.
Abby Ross Hutto: Yes.
Eden: And we started talking. And then I get on the plane to go home from D.C., and I sit by this nice blonde lady, and I think, “Boy, she looks familiar.” And it’s the same lady! And it was you! We had such a sweet time. Abby sent me her book (God For Us: Discovering the Heart of the Father Through the Life of the Son) in the mail, and I have been reading it, and this summer it has been such an encouragement to my heart. I like to read books in spurts. So I’ll read it whenever I feel like it and then I’ll pick up a different book. So I’m reading like four books at a time, typically. But every time I pick it up, it’s a great encouragement to my heart. So I’m excited to just share with our audience about it and to learn a little about you.
We always start off with—What are a few things that bring you joy?
Abby Ross Hutto: Yes. I love to think about joy. So many things bring me joy. I love to hike. I love to ride my bike. I love to be outside—anytime I feel even just a little bit drained or sad or anything, I just go outside because I sense God’s presence in nature so clearly. So I love to be outside. I love to spend time with my family. Luckily, they all enjoy walking, hiking, and biking too, so that works out well. We do all those things together. Then when I’m not outside, I love to read, and I love to read mystery novels. That’s like my favorite thing.
Eden: That’s great. I resonate.
Abby Ross Hutto: That balances out the theology stuff I have to read.
Eden: Yes. I feel like if you’re soaked in theology most of the time, you do need some really good fiction, or at least a biography or something to balance it out.
Abby Ross Hutto: Something a little lighthearted.
Eden: Totally. Wonderful. And is there a part of God’s Word that’s especially precious to you and why?
Abby Ross Hutto: Yes. So I love—and we’ll talk about this more when we talk about my book—but I love the Gospel of John, and particularly I love the first chapter. I love how poetic and beautiful it is. It almost feels like a song of God singing how much he wants to draw us close to him—and how the Word became flesh (John 1:14). I love especially the part where it talks about how no one has seen God, but the one who is at the Father’s side, he has made God known to us (John 1:18). And if we were reading that in the Greek, it would literally say, “the one who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made God known to us.” And I love this beautiful picture of God taking his heart and giving us Christ to show us what he’s really like—the fullness of grace. So that has always been such a precious passage to me.
I’ve read it over my children many years, and my son, who’s 18, just got his first tattoo and it’s Greek. “The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness cannot overcome it” (John 1:5), which is from John chapter one. So I love that it’s becoming a family heirloom. But his tattoo was actually really long. I don’t think he realized how long that verse in Greek would be. It’s a little painful.
Eden: That’s great. Well, it clearly made an impact on him as you sowed that Word into his heart it took root in him, and he’s willing to put it on his body, which means it’s very important to him.
Abby Ross Hutto: For forever.
Eden: Yes. I want to talk a little bit about your book, but before that I would love to hear how you came to know Jesus.
Abby Ross Hutto: So I grew up—my dad’s a pastor. He’s retired now. But my dad was a pastor and so I grew up in a ministry home. So I can honestly say there’s never been a time where I didn’t know Jesus. But I do remember when I was four or five, giving my life to Jesus, praying that he would come live in my heart. And I was very sincere, so I do really believe that’s when I became a Christian. But it wasn’t until I was 30 that I really came to know the love of God for me and to love him in return.
So when I think about my life, had I died at 28, I know I would have gone to be with the Lord because he’s faithful and true. But it really wasn’t until I was 30 that I really feel like my life with God began. I was even on staff at a church doing all kinds of ministry things, but I did not feel rooted and secure in the love of God until I was 30. And that was such a beautiful time of reawakening for me to come to know God as he truly is and his beautiful, beautiful heart for us. So I came to know him when I was little, but yes, it’s only been the last 13 years that I’ve really come to know him.
Eden: I think that’s such a good reminder of what our adventure with Jesus is like, that once we get to know him, he—Once you get to know a person, you could be married for 30 years and around year 15 discover something about your spouse that you’re like, “Wow, I didn’t ever see you that way.” And he’s infinitely beyond our understanding while still being someone that we know and treasure. And so he’s always disclosing more of his heart to us. And that’s, I think, part of the adventure.
Abby Ross Hutto: Yes, a continual unfolding.
Eden: Yes. Our listeners or watchers are largely, we expect, people that did not grow up in a Christian home or in church, and so sometimes I feel like it’s helpful to explain what that transformation looks like when Jesus works in our heart. So what would you say—and I know someone could get your book, God For Us (it’s beautiful), they could read more of your story there—but can you tell us a little bit more about what that awakening looked like for you and maybe what thoughts Jesus transformed as he showed you his love?
Abby Ross Hutto: Oh, absolutely. I think that’s such a great question because even if we have a moment of faith in our life where we came to believe, that transforming is happening until we die. That is the reality of a life lived with Jesus. It is one of continual transformation (2 Corinthians 3:18). I know for me what that has looked like: I started crying a lot. Things that I had known in my head, they finally took root in my heart, and it created such joy. And the tenderness of my heart changed toward God, where things that I knew were true about him in my head, it was like they came alive in my heart. I would cry randomly in the most awkward places as these truths would dawn on me. And for me, I have always struggled with anxiety, even as a little kid. I remember being so anxious and afraid and having nightmares. And I know my body, that’s something I will always battle because of the way that my body’s been made. But I will say that in coming to know Jesus as he truly is, it has given me a firm foundation in my life. Over time—I don’t think I’ll ever be 100% fear free—but over time, I see my anxieties lessen and lessen and lessen. And I do think that that is something that most Christians who have come to know God in true and real and precious ways—I see that in older saints—that they’re unflappable. Things don’t bother them as much as they used to. They don’t get as anxious or afraid about things, and they’re much quicker to pray about things than try to solve it on their own. And I am seeing that.
I just turned 43 and I definitely am seeing that transformation begin in my life. I look forward to it continuing. But just the peace that I have that I didn’t have before. And knowing that he’s faithful and he has been my whole life, and he will not give up on me. Just that knowledge gives my life stability that I haven’t always had. So it is sweet to see God’s transforming work over time. It’s a long road.
Eden: Is there a person or a book, or were there any specific things, that you feel like the Lord used to really start that more radical transformation?
Abby Ross Hutto: That’s such a great question. It’s funny, I’m going to turn my camera so you can see. So in my office, I have a massive lion.
Eden: Oh, cute!
Abby Ross Hutto: My mom would read us The Chronicles of Narnia when we were little.
Eden: Oh. No way! Me too!
Abby Ross Hutto: So I think that God as a lion has always been an image that has helped me feel safe and secure. So my lion is nestling a little lamb in his arms. And so I think that C.S. Lewis’s writings have always been a companion to me from childhood on. We’ve been rewatching the first three movies that were done by, I guess, Walden Media, several years ago. We’ve been rewatching those with my nieces and nephews which has made me want to reread the books. So that is on my list of things to read next are all The Chronicles of Narnia, because I want to read them as an adult. I haven’t read all of them as an adult. I’ve reread a few of them as an adult. But this image of Jesus being a lion. That’s in Isaiah, God calls himself a lion who hovers over his people and defends and protects them (Isaiah 31:4-5). We see in Revelation that he’s the Lion of Judah (Revelation 5:5). This idea that he is a lion who is safe and is good and who stands over us and protects us. And I know that’s an image that I come back to again and again and again. Partially because I have a giant lion in my office.
Eden: Lovely. That’s so great.
Abby Ross Hutto: That’s been very helpful to my heart.
Eden: The Chronicles of Narnia was actually—the picture of Aslan—I don’t remember which part of the book it was, but when I was seven, that was a picture that clarified, “oh, that’s what God is like.” And it was shortly after that that I came to know Jesus, too. So it’s such a helpful image and it’s a biblical image. It comes from the Bible. C.S. Lewis stole it.
Abby Ross Hutto: Yes. He did.
Eden: Well, let’s talk about your book. So what inspired you to write this book? Writing a book is a big deal. It takes a lot of time. Your book is called God For Us: Discovering the Heart of the Father through the Life of the Son, and it does walk through the Gospel of John, which is awesome, but it also tells stories of individuals who are changed by realizing that God was for them. So what inspired you to write the book and where did it come from?
Abby Ross Hutto: Yeah, that’s such a great question because I am not a writer. I did not go to school for that. And I definitely never pictured myself writing a book. So the research that I did for the book came out of a curriculum that I was writing for my church at the time, I was a director of Women’s Ministry two churches ago. This was during the time when I began to realize that my heart was far from God, and that I was afraid of him, and that the primary emotion I felt when I thought about God the Father, in particular, was fear. So I studied the Gospel of John, mostly for my own heart but I also wrote curriculum while I was at it because I needed to teach my women’s Bible study something. I spent all year, that whole school year, studying the Gospel of John.
It was such a transformation from start to finish. The work that God did in my heart just by looking at Jesus for that many hours over the course of a school year—so it was nine months. Because I had done all that research, and I have been a speaker for a while, I began to—when people would ask me to speak at their conferences and stuff, I would say, “Yes, but can I talk about the Gospel of John?” And so I began to speak on the Gospel of John, and a publisher heard me, contacted me, asked if I would write a book based on John. And I was like, “Oh, I only have curriculum. I don’t know how to write. So you can post my curriculum.” And they were like, “Oh, we don’t want to publish curriculum.”
So I thought, okay, well that was that. We’re done. But then two weeks later, or maybe not even two weeks, it may have just been a week later, the editor that I was in conversation with called me back, and she was like, “Actually, I think we could make this a book.” And she was like, “I think that this is what people need to hear. They need to hear that God is for them (Romans 8:31; Psalm 56:9).”
So I put together a book proposal. The proposal only required that I write two chapters. And so I wrote the first chapter, which is my story, and then I asked a friend of mine if I could use her story for [the chapter] “A God for the afflicted.” If you read the book, you’ll see she was a woman in my community who had suffered many losses. She had lost five children by the time I interviewed her. Her story was so powerful of the ways that God, even in her pain, was so very present with her. So I wrote those two chapters. I did not think they would publish the book, so I didn’t bother to try to find any other stories. I remember the day they called and said, “We love it, we want to publish it!” And my first thought was, “Oh shoot, I have to find 11 more stories. I don’t know how to do that.” And the stories, if you read the book, they’re very personal. I don’t know how I’m going to get 11 more people to share their stories with me. But it was amazing. It was such a wonderful process.
I would even wake up in the middle of the night and would sense the Holy Spirit saying, “I want you to ask so-and-so to give her story for this chapter.” And I would wake up the next morning and I would email her and within minutes I would get responses—every single time I ask somebody, I would get the response, “I’ve been waiting to share my story. I’m so glad you asked.” I had so many notes. People were pouring out their hearts.
I think everyone who I interviewed realized how hard it is to go through difficult things and to misjudge God’s character, and what a sweetness it is when we finally realize who he actually is. And I think that was the heart behind every single story. It was people wanting other people to see the goodness of God in the middle of hard things. I’m flabbergasted by how many wonderful reviews I get, but the few critiques that I get over the book is that all the stories end happy. I’m just like, “Oh, I can’t do anything about that. Even if their circumstances didn’t turn out great, they found Jesus to be the treasure in the sorrow. That’s a happy ending. Even if our circumstances don’t work out the way that we wish they would, if we find Christ, we have found everything. And so they are all happy stories for that reason.”
Eden: Yes.
Abby Ross Hutto: Yeah, but that was such a joy to get to write that book and to hear of God’s faithfulness again and again and again through the lives of his people, and to record those and share those. I’ve heard the most beautiful feedback of my book being taken to rehab facilities for people who struggle with substance abuse and being left there so that more people who come will find the hope that they have in Jesus. That little book has gone more places than I will ever go, and I’m so delighted that the message that God loves us more than we could ever imagine is being told again and again and again through those pages, so it makes my heart very happy.
Eden: Wow. Your book made my heart happy. And also, funny story, so I get home from obviously the trip that we met on, and I had left my book right behind me. Let’s see, here fans, you can see that’s our little coffee table. So I had my book out there, and my roommate comes in and she’s like, “Oh my goodness, you’re reading that book? That book changed my life a few years ago.” And I was like, “Wait, you know this book? I had never seen this book, and I just met this lady on an airplane,” and she’s like, “Abby (Ross) Hutto? That book changed my life!” And she talked about how it was so transformative for her and helping her see God’s goodness. And I was like, this is so cool.
Abby Ross Hutto: That is amazing.
Eden: As you were talking, I thought about how a lot of the content that we choose on our website, we really pay attention to how that work came about, as well as the work itself, and just wanting everything that we present to people to be something that we know that the Holy Spirit is pleased to work through. And it’s really encouraging when you realize that a book or a work like this is really a work of God, that he sets people in places to bump into each other, and then he wakes you up in the middle of the night and he makes people willing and available, and that this project is Spirit-led (Romans 8:14). And then we trust that this is something he wants to do in the world, and he wants to share, and he wants to tell us.
Abby Ross Hutto: Yeah, and he will use us how he wants to use us. And I think that’s one of the things that’s so freeing about belonging to the kingdom of God, is that even our little efforts—we know he can do amazing things with anything that we offer to him, and he’s pleased to (Ephesians 3:20). He could do all this without us, but it brings his heart joy to partner with us and include us. And that again points to the generous nature of the heart of God.
Eden: Yes, totally.
Last question. Is there a book or resource—and you already mentioned The Chronicles of Narnia, so we’ll put that one to the side and recommend it in the links below—but is there a book or a resource outside the Bible that has transformed your walk with Jesus?
Abby Ross Hutto: Yes, I actually had to think about this question. I’m so glad that you sent me the questions ahead of time because I was like, “Oh, there’s so many!” But I limited myself. I wrote them down. so I loved J.I. Packer’s book, Knowing God. And it is a little heady. So I always tell people, “I’m not a genius, so when I read things, I have to really like chew.” And what I did with that book, because I recommended it to several people and their response is like, “Oh, it is really good, but it’s a lot. I had a hard time getting through it.” And I always tell people to get the audiobook and listen to it and read it at the same time, because when you hear it and you’re reading it, it actually helps those concepts really take root in your heart in a different way. And so a lot of times I would listen to a chapter while I would clean, and then I’d go back and read the chapter, and it helped all the concepts, because they are deep, beautiful concepts. But I needed to hear them and then read them. That kept my heart engaged and on track. And I’m so glad that I did, because I had actually tried to read it two or three times before I actually read it, and it wasn’t until I learned the audiobook trick.
But I love that book, and I love how he unpacks the Trinity in such a beautiful way and explains so much of God’s heart, which also then I would say, it’s not hand in hand because it’s a newer book, but Michael Reeves book Delighting in the Trinity is also excellent and so good to look at the heart of God on full display in the Trinity. And I think the Trinity can be a concept—so when we think of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, just in case some of your listeners are like, “What’s the Trinity?“—that’s what we call God as he exists. He is three Persons in one God, and that is beyond our understanding. It’s a mystery. It’s hard to understand. And so a lot of times we’re like, “Oh, that’s too hard to understand. I’m not going to spend time thinking about that.” But when we do actually learn to delight in who God is as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, it really is life changing. It changes everything for us. So I would say those two books have been really impactful.
Another one for looking at the heart of God—it’s an old book, I think it’s 50 years old, but it’s called A Shepherd Looks at Psalm 23, and it’s by Phillip Keller. So many older saints are like, “That book changed my life.” And so when I began to hear that, I was like, “I’m going to read that book.” And I actually read it during Covid when everyone was so afraid. It was such a beautiful book to read, to remember that our God has shepherded us through all kinds of things, and he will continue to shepherd us faithfully again and again and again. And it’s a book written from an actual shepherd. Phillip Keller was a shepherd. He writes about shepherding in a way that none of us who have never shepherded a sheep, a flock, I think that we’re like, “I never would have gotten that from Psalm 23.” I thought that was a really beautiful and helpful book for my heart. So those are a few that I have really loved, and I limited myself to three.
Eden: Thank you. Well, those are an excellent three. I think the Delighting in the Trinity book is on our Trinity page, on our website. And Knowing God, I also started reading with a friend because I heard it mentioned five times in two weeks or something, and I was like, “maybe this is God telling me to read this book.”
Abby Ross Hutto: Probably.
Eden: But like you, I’ve known Jesus since I can remember. I came to know him when I was seven, but I was reading that book and I was like, “I have never thought about these things this way.” He is such a phenomenal teacher, and he’s so relational in everything that he says. Even though he’s heady, he’s really trying to get you to think about your Christian life as an adventure of knowing God and who he is. And oh, it’s just brilliant. And A Shepherd Looks at Psalm 23 is also a brilliant little book.
Abby Ross Hutto: Yeah, and it’s not heady and very short.
Eden: It is very short. You could read it in one afternoon very easily.
Well, Abby, thank you for sharing your story and your book and your thoughts with us. It was such a blessing to get to speak to you today, and it’s a blessing to know you.
Abby Ross Hutto: Thank you for asking me. This has been a fun little journey you and I have been on, from a plane, to writing letters to one another, to now podcasts!
Eden: Yes! So fun!
Thank you so much for listening to our podcast today. If you enjoyed our conversation, I would encourage you to like or subscribe to our podcast so that you can hear the next conversation. And if something that you heard today spoke to your heart or got you thinking, I would encourage you to not let the day go by without talking to God about what’s on your mind. We believe that he loves you and that he’s pursuing you today out of that love.